| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Has Anyone here tried marking cards with Juice?(0Likes) |
Special user
504 Posts
Posted: Dec 10, 2006 06:24 am 
I have seen ads for juices that claim that you can mark the backs of cards and only you will be able to see them. This sounds like a great utility for the gambler. Has anyone tried using Juice in real life? Is it practical? And can only YOU see the cards?
Special user
à land, Finland
621 Posts
I am not an expert on this subject but juice is basically a solution which you apply on the back of the card and with a lot of practise you will be able to see the markings when no-one else will. Of course this depends on whether the other people have practised or not but I guess that is not very common.
kim_210385@hotmail.com
Eternal Order
Devil's Island
16554 Posts
Well that was exprtly answered Kim. 
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy
Regular user
Playa del Carmen, MX
112 Posts
Hi Drizz,
I used it and it works, but not always. Sometimes players are hiding their cards with their hands or just the other card is covering it or the card is very far. Needs a lot of practice to read weak signes.
The advantge is, you can paint a very big sign so it can be read from very far. I take my from Ellusionist. It works with Red Backed Bee Playing Cards.
I think the Jucie is good for Black Jack and for Texas Hold'Em and it can make the card calling much esier.
Regards,
Paul
Pal Bodnar - In Magic We Trust
Inner circle
Proffessional Slacker
2001 Posts
Has anyone truied juice with kem cards and not bee's?? Everyone seems to talk about big games and it seems the cards they use are made from papaer... hard to believe...
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
Special user
615 Posts
Expertmagician is the resident expert on juice. Hopefully he'll chime in and answer your questions. However, in my opinion, juice dust is the way to go, as he will also tell you.
C. Loubard
Inner circle
2478 Posts
First of all both Juice and Luminous technologies are technicaly both related. But, the formulas are very different. The generic term is called "shade". While people have tried to publish old formulas which use to work on old cards before USPCC changed the finish....New formulas will not damage the finish of cards and are not subject to detection via UV/black light.
Avoid ANY formulas which use alcohol...just take a drop of alcohol and place it on a card. When you reflect light of the back you will see a dull area, where the finish was burned.
Both Juice AND Luminous are VERY practical from several points of view:
1) The marks can be large so the marks can be read from a distance easily
2) People who know about the "gambler's riffle test" will not be able to detect Juice marks.
3) These large marks also help me now, as I aged. This is because I can't read small marks (ie. Boris Wild Marked deck) without my reading glasses :-( (sigh). So with large Juice or Luminous marks reading the marks is much easier, especially from a distance.
--------
Luminous additional advantages:
1) Marks can only be read if you are wearing filtered sunglasses
2) Luminous marked cards are VERY easy to use because the filtered sunglasses act as a crutch and make the marks easy to read.
-------
Juice aditional advantages:
1) You do not need filters to read marks. Just a little practice.
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Do you want to but pre-marked Luminous or Juice marked cards:
Pre-marked cards advantages:
1) Buy them and use them. (But, Juice still takes practice vs. Luminous.) But, they can be expensive $60-$ 120 per decent quality deck depending upon wear you by them.
-------
Marking your own advantages:
1) Marking your own is MUCH less expensive.
2) You can customize marks to your own ability. (Darker marks for beginners and lighter more subtle marks as you gain expertise.
3) Marks can be customized for specific lighting conditions for maximum deception.
4) You can develop your own marking patterns or mix-and-marhc existing marking aptterns to fool those "in the know".
5) You can mark the edges of the cards (ie. Bee diamonds near edges) so you don't have to see the whole back of the card.
6) You can custom make red OR blue Juiced cards with the appropriate Juice substances.
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Marking KEM, Copags, etc.:
1) If you want to mark 100% plastic playing cards, I suggest using Juice Dust because it works on paper as well as most 100% plastic cards such as KEM, Copag, Gemaco, Modiano, etc.) In addition you NEVER have to worry about damaging the finish of any cards with Juice Dust.
Bear in mind that this is a magic forum and you should NOT consider using marked cards or any other magic utility for any illegal or immoral activity. Marked cards should ONLY be used for magic and/or gambling expose's performances.
Long Island,
New York
Eternal Order
21281 Posts
We are talking about use for private games and such right, NOT a casino?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Inner circle
2478 Posts
I don't know where you live....but, private games are also illegal....and casinos are outright crazy because it is a felony if you get caught cheating....which is much worse than a mistemina.
And that is not even addressing the moral issues
Long Island,
New York
Eternal Order
21281 Posts
I know.
I wasn't going to get into moral issues.
I just didn't want anyone encouraged to try this stuff in a casino environment and end up with at least 1 strike.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Special user
504 Posts
I was under the impression that casino cards are used once then tossed.
Thanks everyone for your advice.
ANother inquiry? Is it practical to mark cards with juice right infront of the players, on the slay of course, but can it be done?
Inner circle
2478 Posts
That is the purpose of Juice Dust. Of course, you have the most control and accuracy if you mark cards in the privacy of your own home.
But, if you want to make a Juiced deck by using a borrowed deck, even while they are watching you...you can use Juice Dust simply by getting some of the Juice Dust on your finger. Then you touch/rub the card in a "strategic" location. With some practice you will be able to make a Juice Deck without anyone's knowledge, even while they watch.
Juice Dust is VERY long lasting, unlike "daub - the real deal" which is sold in some magic shops. Juice Dust will withstand MANY hours of shuffling and abuse which makes it practical for the serious worker. In addition, Juice Dust is a completely different formula than daub, and contains very different ingredients to create the most deceptive Juice marking available to date.
Note: Juice solution is also available in a no-mess, easy to use, marker/pen which tends to be permanent (especially on paper cards)....
....Just be careful about imitation Juice which requires you to carefully monitor "set-times". This cheap $30 juice is also available in a marker and started to become available in the 2006 time frame. There is also, a $30 "Juice" in a bottle which is alcohol based, so you have to worry about burning the cards as well.
Sure you can use these cheap Juice products to play/experiment with, but, if you want really deceptive products to use in front of a knowledgeable audience, I suggest that your stick with quality.
I hope this answers your question.
Enjoy !
Posted: Dec 10, 2006 10:53pm
Side note: I just wanted to point out that "daub - the real deal" is very good if you want a daub mark which can easily rub off the card almost effortlessly. In this way, you can mark a card and unmark it easily. Hence, you got rid of the evidence quickly
But, if you want the cards to withstand shuffling and abuse...then this daub simply rubs off too easily. Therefore, you must either use a "perminant" juice marker or Juice Dust.
Side note: If you don't want to practice and want something which is easy to read...then luminous is the way to go. But, you must use filtered sunglasses with luminous solutions. Juice just takes practice and sunglasses are not required. You may want to note that luminous Juice Dust is harder to use than standard Juice Dust because you do not want to get the luminous juice dust on the white areas of your cards. This is not a concern when using regular Juice Dust that is not luminous.
As usual, each product has it's pros and cons .. so, you must select the product which will work the best in your environment.
Have fun !
Long Island,
New York
Eternal Order
Devil's Island
16554 Posts
Poker in a casino is played with plastic and they do not toss them away but the decks are rotated with the dealer change over about ever half hour or so.
It's just as much of a crime to cheat in a home game as a casino by the way. At least it is here in England. But in Vegas they have speacial laws that relate to casino's only I guess like being in possion of a cheating device. Cheating in your more likely to get caught I would think. On the up side I don't you would get shot in casino but you might in an home game. I don't like maked cards much there is too much evidence.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy
Inner circle
2478 Posts
When I do gambling expose routines, I explain that sometimes card mechanics prefer to gave someone else bring the deck. Then they switch in their pre-marked deck and ditch the regular deck that the host previously bought. In this way, they are never suspect. Of course, you have to have BOTH red and blue cards ready for the switch.
If you pre-marked the deck it is far easier to switch sealed decks because the "heat" is not on before the game.
Sometimes, mechanics also will switch out the marked deck....so there is no evidence after the game as well.
One final thought, while sleight of hand leaves no evidence, mechanics do like marked cards simply because they don't deal every hand. Hence, they can get an edge regardless of who is dealing.
Long Island,
New York
Inner circle
4574 Posts
I had a huge juice rant here, but deleted it.
I believe all online juice dealers to be total rip-off artists.
Because all hustlers know how to make their own juice, the target for the $150.00 bottle of juice with 10 cents worth of stuff in it is magicians.
Inner circle
2478 Posts
I do agree with silverking's comment that "Magic Café ISN'T a hustlers forum". I always point out that any and all marked cards or any dual purpose cheating devices should not be used in any illegal or immoral way.
silverking's formula is close when it comes to the typical $30 juice solutions.
Fact: Some "Shade" formula ingredients (High quality Juice and/or luminous can cost up to $160 - $200+ per gram). Manuscripts, video CDs, etc. also add to production and research & development costs. (Note: The high price of the most important ingredient may be a hint/giveaway as to what it is...shhhh !)
Fact: The raw material costs of 99% of all magic is not too high (but 10 cents is crazy). I wonder how much wood is in a $10,000 - $20,000+ stage illusion when compared to the time and effort in developing the magic.....OR how much it costs to make a Dean's box or Porper effect I spent $200 on the Forte book which costs much less to publish overseas (and it ws published overseas). Time, effort and SECRECY costs money.
PS: You may also notice, that I have not mentioned any specific name brand or web site, etc. I always try to talk in generic useful terms, unless I am specifically asked for recommendations. Even then I try to give certain advice off line or via PM.
Long Island,
New York
Inner circle
4574 Posts
If you really want to get into it with me Expertmagician, I'll be more than willing to get into the details of what's in juice, and what it's worth even AFTER you include the R&D costs.
There's product mark up, and then there's BLATANT RIP OFF. The cost per gram means nothing when you're using that single gram to make a few gallons (or more) of juice.
If you don't believe any of my formulas are the same as the $150.00 a bottle stuff, I'd be happy to post them here......but be careful what you ask for.
Special user
615 Posts
Silverking, It is true many hustlers know how to make it, but the high price is used to preserve the secret.
Expertmagician has expressed many times before "The formula was very expensive"
there were once two scientist running experiments on an island. One day, the generator stopped working. After trying, for many hours, to get it to work again, they gave up and called the company who made the generator.
The Company sent out one of their technicians, post haste. Upon arrival the technician circled the generator a few times before he pulled out his hammer and gave the equipment a good hard bang. lo and behold, the generator started working again.
The technician handed a bill to the scientist, for two thousand dollars.
The scientist, appalled at the charge, questioned the technician "How dare you charge us two thousand dollars for hitting the equipment with a hammer.
"My dear sirs," the technician responded, "one dollar was for hitting the equipment, one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine dollars was for knowing where to hit it."
C. Loubard
Inner circle
2478 Posts
Silverking,
I have no desire to argue...I simply am trying to help and inform fellow magicians. I simply answered the questions posted in a factual way....nor was I the person who attacked. I am VERY careful not to lie or make up any stories. Nor do I mention web sites or sources.
I am posting this comment in defense of my only making factual statements. I am sure your Juice formulas may only cost 10 cents. But, some people are willing to pay for quality, features and value added knowledge...as well as for new technology...that has never been published.
By the way, I thought the Forum specifically says that explicit exposure of any magic secret is against the rules, which is why I don't even publish old formulas.
I would like to call a truce !
Long Island,
New York
Inner circle
4574 Posts
The secret is preserved by not giving out the formula, not putting a 20,000% mark up on the raw materials.
